Curse

Lourens · Feb 03, 2009, 01:17 PM // 13:17

[Withdraw Hexes]

Elite Spell. Remove all Hexes from target ally and all adjacent allies.This Spell takes and additional 20..8..4 seconds recharge for each Hex removed in this way(Maximum 60-30 seconds).

Remove Lingering and Suffering from a party of 8 with 0 divine favor = 320 seconds recharge ... think they should cap this max 60 seconds

360° · Feb 03, 2009, 01:20 PM // 13:20

Even if they capped that to 60 secs, no one would use it.

hoyce · Feb 03, 2009, 01:48 PM // 13:48

It is seriously out-competed by other hex removals. They'd have to break it to fix it...I think the only solution is the rework the skill...

Cebe · Feb 03, 2009, 01:59 PM // 13:59

I agree with hoyce. Perhaps if it incorporated some other downside to the player using it? Maybe:

Remove all hexes from target ally and adjacent allies. For each hex lost all party members gain 5...10...12 health. You lose an additional 1 energy for each hex removed in this way.

I'm not saying the above is ideal, probably far from it, but I would reckon it needs a complete rework of it's functionality to be worthwhile.

MagmaRed · Feb 03, 2009, 02:57 PM // 14:57

15 energy is already the highest for any Monk skill outside of a particular rez nobody uses. Casting time is fair - easy enough to interrupt, but not so long as to prevent healing/protecting to still occur. What is killing the usefulness of this skill is the recharge. Make is something like:

15 energy
1 cast time
5 recharge

Elite Spell. Remove all hexes from target and all adjacent party members (prevents issues with NPCs, pets, minions, etc.). For each hex removed all your skills are disabled for 3..2..1 seconds.

If removing Suffering from 8 people, you'd be without skills for 8 seconds if you had 13 Divine Favor or more, and 16 seconds with 7 or more DF. Party wide hex removal is very small, this could be useful as a secondary. If this happened, you wouldn't see a Monk using it though, but an elite slot for a secondary class isn't used often (MoI, Hidden Caltops) outside of Sin.

I'm not sure what would make the skill useful, but currently it is a complete waste.

ac1inferno · Feb 03, 2009, 05:59 PM // 17:59

[[Withdraw Hexes] is bad for the following reasons:
- Energy cost same as [[Convert Hexes]
- Recharge time is longer than [[Convert hexes] @ 2 removed hexes and 16 DF
- [[Convert Hexes] provides armor boost.

I suggest the following for [[Withdraw Hexes]. Some or all of the suggestions should be adopted.
- Reduce energy cost to 10
- Increase activation to 2 seconds
- Add in 'lose 4..[email protected] energy for each hex lost
- Increase range to party members
- Reduce hexes removed to 1..[email protected]
- Decrease disable duration to 10..[email protected]

faraaz · Feb 03, 2009, 06:25 PM // 18:25

[Peace and Harmony] > [Withdraw Hexes]

Unless Anet does a "we cant balance anything so lets make everything overpowered" update again, not much hope for this skill in any way.

jaximus · Feb 03, 2009, 07:16 PM // 19:16

with the functionality of PnH in the current form, withdraw should take a similar yet different functionality in order to be used in a similar fashion. this issue with some skills 'balance' comes with how the skill itself works in a different manner than skills that are known to work. like word and zb for example. they are bar pushers. PnH is a party member cleaner, similar to rc. and with the need for bar pushers in gvg/ha gameplay, withdraw would have to compete with rc/PnH for the slot one the prot.

so heres my thinking. since holy veil is an amazing skill, why not make a similar function with withdraw.

"(5e 3/4 7) elite enchantment spell: target ally loses all hexes and for 2..5 seconds, hexes cast on target ally take twice as long to cast. your smiting prayers are disabled for 20 seconds. (50% chance of failure with divine favor 4 or less)"

this would give monks the clean sweep of hexes they so desperately want. 'target ally' keeps this skill able to self target. with no condition removal, this skill wouldnt be too similar to PnH. the added cast time for hexes on target would help rangers/mesmers deter hexway pressure and hurt the fast cast mesmer hexers(snares/curses). this skill would be balanced in 8v8 and in areas where monks would use the elite to keep themselves clean but lack the big bar pushers.

Sword Hammer Axe · Feb 03, 2009, 07:42 PM // 19:42

I'm thinking a rework would be nice too. Something like this:

15 e
1 cast
10 or 15 recharge

Remove all hexes from target ally. For each hex removed all allies are healed for 15...65...75 and gain 0...5...6 energy.

I would use it if it was like that. Even if it couldn't self target I would

Raul the Rampant · Feb 03, 2009, 07:55 PM // 19:55

I guess my first reaction is that since we already have skills like [Martyr], [Cautery Signet], and [Foul Feast], couldn't something be designed along those lines of functionality to work on hexes? I'm not really sure about it yet, but I'll throw it out there and see if anyone else has any thoughts on it...

10 energy, 1 second cast, 20 second recharge
Transfer 0..2..3 hexes and their remaining durations from each party member to yourself, and the duration of these hexes is then reduced by 30...90..95%. For each hex transferred in this way you gain 0..2..3 energy.

This could provide an economical party-wide hex removal that could not be abused by other professions as it would remain in the DF line. Furthermore,the recharge prevents it from being overly spammable, and the obvious potential drawbacks would mean that the user would have to be aware of the types of hexes being employed by the other team in order to use it without causing undue harm to him/herself and their team. Obviously this would be more effective in counter-melee heavy situations, but caster hate could also be mitigated with this if the team prepares correctly.

MagmaRed · Feb 03, 2009, 08:17 PM // 20:17

The appeal of Withdraw wasn't so much the massive amounts of hexes it would remove from a target, it was the fact it would remove hexes from a large number of targets with one cast. As hex removal skills are lacking compared to the amount of hexes, and are severely outclasses in recharge times, this was nice for a way to remove multiple hexes from multiple targets. Key word there is multiple, and it was used 2 times.

Problem was that this would create a balance issue, so the recharge penalty was used to keep it balanced. However, it also created a reason for the skill to never get used.

Peace And Harmony is a great hex removal skill. However, it fails on party wide hex removal, as you have to wait 7 seconds to use it again. Things like Suffering and Lingering Curse give problems on multiple targets, but P&H only fixes that problem on one target.

Not sure how it could be done AND balanced, but I'd love to see a skill that provided party wide hex removal.

IronSheik · Feb 03, 2009, 08:17 PM // 20:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raul the Rampant

Blablabla

I like this idea, but I think the recharge would be better at 30 or 45

snaek · Feb 03, 2009, 09:01 PM // 21:01

withdraw hexes
unlinked
15en
2c
20r

remove 1 hex from each party member within earshot

----
to compete directly with:

expel hexes
unlinked
5en
1c
8r

remove 2 hexes from target ally

----
withdraw has potential to remove more hexes
but only effective if whole team is facing hex-heavy pressure

2 second cast leaves much room to be interrupted
so while 20s may seem like a short recharge, u really do have to be careful with it

both r unlinked and so can be run (and most likely should) by secondaries

Painbringer · Feb 03, 2009, 10:25 PM // 22:25

Target ally is healed for 16-51 health if that character is suffering from a hex that ally and all allies "with in an ear shot" have 1 hex removed (if more than one ally lose a hex in this way you are exhausted)

15en
1c
30r

Just an idea

Spike Stritter · Feb 04, 2009, 03:28 AM // 03:28

i believe Anet should change Anet should maybe make [Withdraw Hexes] a buffer [Peace and Harmony] without the condition removal.
i mean we got RC why not have a similiar effect with WH

Bobulation · Feb 04, 2009, 03:47 AM // 03:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spike Stritter

i believe Anet should change Anet should maybe make [Withdraw Hexes] a buffer [Peace and Harmony] without the condition removal.
i mean we got RC why not have a similiar effect with WH

A similar effect with hexes would probably be overpowered.

Spike Stritter · Feb 04, 2009, 04:49 AM // 04:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobulation

A similar effect with hexes would probably be overpowered.

i disagree.
Through my experience you run into conditons way more than hexes and there are only a select few that can really cripple you.
if applying the RC concept to WH but obviosuly hexes instead of conditions i think it would be just as useful as RC: useful in areas with lots of hexes but pointless in areas with few to no hexes.
now for the middle areas(moderate hexes) it would be a debatable skill, meaning should the monk elite be WoH, WH, ZB, etc.

if someone proves what i said was wrong or inaccurate then maybe not change WH to like RC but at least change it since there are way better elites to be using(divert hexes anyone?)

Lourens · Feb 04, 2009, 10:46 AM // 10:46

Remove 2-5 Hexes from target ally for 20 seconds the next 3-10 times target ally would be dealt damage that damage is reduced by 20-50.

make it an elite [[reverse hex]

Krill · Feb 04, 2009, 12:10 PM // 12:10

As far as elite hex removals go it's hard to imagine how anything could compete with PnH.

I like where Lourens was going, maybe a Life Sheath like skill for hex removal. 5e, 1/4s cast, 5s recharge with RoF effect. However there is an argument to be made against more 1/4s monk elites, only viable counter is hum sig or luck.

Cebe · Feb 04, 2009, 12:20 PM // 12:20

Or perhaps try to rework the spell into a Divine Boon or a Purifying Veil type of skill:

Option 1:
15 energy, -1 energy upkeep

While you maintain this enchantment Monk spells targeting an ally remove one hex from that ally. When a hex is removed in this way you lose 6...2...2 energy or Withdraw Hexes ends.

Option 2:
15 energy, -1 energy upkeep, 10 second recharge

While you maintain this Enchantment, Hexes expire 5...41...50% faster on target ally. When this Enchantment ends, one Hex is removed from that ally.